Oh my god I love this excerpt, I'll have to listen to the whole thing sometime!
One of several things I liked: the articulation of neurodivergence as something that changes as the needs of capitalism change. For many years I've thought about this in terms of, e.g., those of us who are very good with the written word––we may be disabled in plenty of other ways, but we're also privileged under current capitalism that relies a lot on literacy. Whereas a boomer who might've had all the skills for neurotypicality in their day might come across as laughably semi-literate when posting online.
I also see that in older movie tropes where the "nerd" was bullied and how that idea I think became part of how "Asperger's" was seen in the early 00s, at a point where the tides of capitalism had shifted away from favoring the jock and the chit-chatter to favoring the nerd, and we ended up with a lot of autistic-coded super-smart characters in successful professional roles who were at most disabled by not getting along with neurotypicals socially, but who were mostly successful under capitalism. I think that archetype still influences how autistic people are seen today, including among autistic activist influencers who are surely disabled in some ways but have a wide reach precisely because of the ways their individual neurotype conforms to the demands of capitalist social media in this moment. I don't want to do a divide-and-conquer in the "oh you can't speak for my nonverbal autistic family member!" way but I also think the neurodivergent folks not represented online (b/c they're nonverbal, or way too socially anxious, or incarcerated or otherwise institutionalized, or actually online but write/speak in a way that gets them dismissed as "dumb or drunk" immediately) are being eclipsed in popular discourse by the kinds of neurodivergent people who are best-built for discourse and I don't see a lot of accountability around what it means to speak for autistic or neurodivergent people as a whole.
Wow I am 14 minutes into the podcast version and I already feel like I have had 2 life-changing realizations. This is seriously good stuff, Jesse, thank you! Your work always makes me want to write a reflective essay in response.
In case you are wondering, the 2 epiphanies so far are: 1) Finally understanding idealism vs materialism in a tangible way and 2) BURNOUT CAN MAKE YOU NEURODIVERGENT HOLY SHIT that resonates a lot
Just want to say I appreciate your work so much, the concepts give my brain the lovely nerd-tingly feeling of multiple interests coming together in a juicy synthesis. And I love the podcasts!! I would read anyway if they weren’t available, but I am a podcast obsessive and find it much easier to absorb info that way 🧡
Keep making the podcasts!!! I’ve got an autoimmune thing flaring up that affects my eyes quite badly, so this is perfect timing. Thanks Jesse!!! I’m excited to listen to this.
I'm so glad you guys talked about the social efforts to muddle the boundaries between "normal" and "not normal". It would be nice if "normal" really was an illusion, but to an extent, it's not.
Again and again amongst people with mental illness I hear the line, "Why can't I be normal?" and a response of "There's no such thing as normal," will get you the equivalent of a sarcastic dismissal and an eyeroll.
Because, unfortunately, there IS a concrete set of standards considered "normal" that have to be met to flourish or even survive in society, and people with any type of illness or marginalized identity know this.
That's just our reality, and yeah, it sucks, but pretending normality is a concept that doesn't even exist beyond ideas is counterintuitive in the effort to improve how disabled and neurodivergent people are treated systemically.
Great conversation, please keep making podcasts! I had already bought the book and then it got lost among my TBR pile, this put it back up at the top. Yay!
This was so good. I really want to keep thinking in *material” ways, as opposed to “idealistic* ways, about how we can pool our neurodivergent power and collectively resist capitalism and make our actual, real lives work better. I love the ideas, but what does it look like on Main Street? That’s what I feel like we need to start dreaming and building.
Oh my god I love this excerpt, I'll have to listen to the whole thing sometime!
One of several things I liked: the articulation of neurodivergence as something that changes as the needs of capitalism change. For many years I've thought about this in terms of, e.g., those of us who are very good with the written word––we may be disabled in plenty of other ways, but we're also privileged under current capitalism that relies a lot on literacy. Whereas a boomer who might've had all the skills for neurotypicality in their day might come across as laughably semi-literate when posting online.
I also see that in older movie tropes where the "nerd" was bullied and how that idea I think became part of how "Asperger's" was seen in the early 00s, at a point where the tides of capitalism had shifted away from favoring the jock and the chit-chatter to favoring the nerd, and we ended up with a lot of autistic-coded super-smart characters in successful professional roles who were at most disabled by not getting along with neurotypicals socially, but who were mostly successful under capitalism. I think that archetype still influences how autistic people are seen today, including among autistic activist influencers who are surely disabled in some ways but have a wide reach precisely because of the ways their individual neurotype conforms to the demands of capitalist social media in this moment. I don't want to do a divide-and-conquer in the "oh you can't speak for my nonverbal autistic family member!" way but I also think the neurodivergent folks not represented online (b/c they're nonverbal, or way too socially anxious, or incarcerated or otherwise institutionalized, or actually online but write/speak in a way that gets them dismissed as "dumb or drunk" immediately) are being eclipsed in popular discourse by the kinds of neurodivergent people who are best-built for discourse and I don't see a lot of accountability around what it means to speak for autistic or neurodivergent people as a whole.
Wow I am 14 minutes into the podcast version and I already feel like I have had 2 life-changing realizations. This is seriously good stuff, Jesse, thank you! Your work always makes me want to write a reflective essay in response.
In case you are wondering, the 2 epiphanies so far are: 1) Finally understanding idealism vs materialism in a tangible way and 2) BURNOUT CAN MAKE YOU NEURODIVERGENT HOLY SHIT that resonates a lot
Just want to say I appreciate your work so much, the concepts give my brain the lovely nerd-tingly feeling of multiple interests coming together in a juicy synthesis. And I love the podcasts!! I would read anyway if they weren’t available, but I am a podcast obsessive and find it much easier to absorb info that way 🧡
Keep making the podcasts!!! I’ve got an autoimmune thing flaring up that affects my eyes quite badly, so this is perfect timing. Thanks Jesse!!! I’m excited to listen to this.
I'm so glad you guys talked about the social efforts to muddle the boundaries between "normal" and "not normal". It would be nice if "normal" really was an illusion, but to an extent, it's not.
Again and again amongst people with mental illness I hear the line, "Why can't I be normal?" and a response of "There's no such thing as normal," will get you the equivalent of a sarcastic dismissal and an eyeroll.
Because, unfortunately, there IS a concrete set of standards considered "normal" that have to be met to flourish or even survive in society, and people with any type of illness or marginalized identity know this.
That's just our reality, and yeah, it sucks, but pretending normality is a concept that doesn't even exist beyond ideas is counterintuitive in the effort to improve how disabled and neurodivergent people are treated systemically.
Great conversation, please keep making podcasts! I had already bought the book and then it got lost among my TBR pile, this put it back up at the top. Yay!
Surprised to hear people don’t listen to your podcast episodes. I look forward to them!
This was so good. I really want to keep thinking in *material” ways, as opposed to “idealistic* ways, about how we can pool our neurodivergent power and collectively resist capitalism and make our actual, real lives work better. I love the ideas, but what does it look like on Main Street? That’s what I feel like we need to start dreaming and building.
Cannot wait to dig into this!
Really enjoyed this! Can't wait to buy the book!